Shoutbox (Disabled)

Will Amorous ever be open source?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MirceaKitsune, May 9, 2017.

  1. MirceaKitsune

    MirceaKitsune Active Member

    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    34
    I've been wanting to start this discussion ever since I discovered Amorous, and decided to get around to it today. Please note this is not an idea for the immediate future, especially as it would obviously be a decision the developers would have to consider carefully and most certainly later... it's a thought for the more distant future.

    I'm been an average-skilled programmer and contributor for various open-source games over the past decade. Most of my work was contributions to Nexuiz / Xonotic and Minetest, whereas nowadays I work on a FOSS game / mod of my own. Obviously I've grown big into the idea of Free Open Source Software, and most of what I use and create qualifies as such.

    Being quite a fan of Amorous, it's impossible not to wonder: Have the developers considered open-sourcing the project at any given stage? Be it the whole thing (assets included) or just the code that stuff runs upon. I assume that with the characters belonging to their specific owners, going fully FOSS might never happen... even if Jax agreed with the sprites themselves being released as CC-BY-*. The code however... I could easily see it being released as GPL or something, after the project is long out of Alpha / Beta stage.

    What do you think about this idea? Also it should be mentioned that my own game project is too supported on Patreon like Amorous, but it's GPL licensed and fully available on a Git repository. Although stuff like early access or patron exclusive access would be harder to do for the default components, it is a system that seems to be working pretty well at least for me.
     
  2. KakeiTheWolf

    KakeiTheWolf Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    23
    Um, it kinda already is to an extent.

    I figured out ages ago that the date paths, dialogue, events, et cetera were a cakewalk to mod. Find the .JSON files, use your favourite zipper (7z/WinRAR) on them, and have at it using Notepad++.

    Very simple, very easy.
     
    kazekage8, Zilas and MirceaKitsune like this.
  3. MirceaKitsune

    MirceaKitsune Active Member

    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    34
    Didn't know that, since I didn't get to take a look at the engine personally. This is good to know! I always love flexibility and intelligent design in any piece of software, and Amorous seems to use simple formats like JSON very well.

    Obviously though, this isn't the same thing as an officially FOSS game, like Xonotic or Minetest or so many others (these are usually my domain). The engine itself is still closed, so you can't grab the code and compile it yourself... and even if you could, both the engine followed by the assets then the characters are proprietary as far as I'm aware, meaning you couldn't make your own fork and redistribute it without arguably wronging the developers (based on everyone's views of how copyright works).

    So my little hope was that, once Amorous has been around for a while and everyone willing to pay for exclusive access / content has already done so, the team might open-source the project officially. Perhaps a silly concern... I'm just a big FOSS fan, and have taken such a liking to this project, so seeing how open it generally is I'd like to imagine it might one day exist in a regime similar to the most awesome Linux games :) Needless to say, I'll love this project as much whether this ever happens or not, but it would still be lovely if it did.
     
  4. KakeiTheWolf

    KakeiTheWolf Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    23
    Well, actually, the engine IS provided with the game. It's just a bit of a strange format. It's an XNB file.
     
  5. MirceaKitsune

    MirceaKitsune Active Member

    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    34
    Wow... really? I remember Amorous was written in Mono. I only have limited experience with this platform from OpenSim, which is itself written in C# and Mono... in its case it needs to be compiled like most languages, with either nant or xbuild.
     
  6. KakeiTheWolf

    KakeiTheWolf Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    23
    Probably xbuild, tbh.
     
  7. Lennian

    Lennian Dark Lord of Team Amorous Team Amorous

    Messages:
    2,207
    Likes Received:
    939
    Once Amorous has reached v1.0 status, I might make a new version of the engine and redo the editor to be "Construction Set"-like, allowing one to fully customize it to his liking (add scenes, dialogue, quests, characters, etc). Technically, Amorous would then run as a plugin on top of it.

    I might just open-source that as well.
     
    Sir Wolf and MirceaKitsune like this.
  8. MirceaKitsune

    MirceaKitsune Active Member

    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    34
    That is wonderful to hear! Thank you for considering it. Knowing one of the admins is close to the idea of FOSS makes me love Amorous even more than I already am :D

    And I didn't know a radical engine rewrite was planned. If that ever happens, maybe the team might even consider a more flexible language at this point; I've always thought something like Python or maybe html5 / JavaScript (play in a browser) could be more optimal, rather than going for an extra dependency like Mono... especially since Amorous only uses 2D animation which is relatively lightweight.

    Bonus fact: I've actually wondered whether Amorous could be rewritten in the Renpy engine without losing any existing features, even if just for sheer curiosity :p Not sure whether they have a fitting animation system though.
     
  9. KakeiTheWolf

    KakeiTheWolf Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    23
    Wouldn't there still be the issue of assets? I mean, adding scenes and dialogue is easy; that's already possible. "Quests" as well. But characters? How would one go about adding in additional characters without clashing with the game's artstyle and aesthetic? This also applies for backgrounds as well.

    As far as I'm aware, characters and backgrounds are the only things that cannot be added right now with ease.
     
  10. Lennian

    Lennian Dark Lord of Team Amorous Team Amorous

    Messages:
    2,207
    Likes Received:
    939
    The point of the rewrite would be to have some competition with Renpy, so clashing artstyle is not of concern.

    And assets won't be a problem if I code it not to be a problem.

    Also scenes are currently not moddable in any fashion. The only thing you can add if you are really persistent is custom dialogue. Neither would quests, as those are hardcoded to be triggered.
     
  11. MirceaKitsune

    MirceaKitsune Active Member

    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    34
    Hmmm... aren't character sprite definitions (and maybe also animations) written in json too? I'd assume they use some kind of text format, and aren't outright coded in the binary... if not that's definitely something I'd agree needs fixing.

    But yeah, the predefined sprites are indeed one limitation. It would help if they were designed to be easily interchangeable, as well as possible to colorize via definitions. Understandably that's harder to do for fixed character designs, as it would be difficult to have the default characters made out of modular swappable sprites (like the player is).

    Still if the colors themselves were adjustable, I could see mixing becoming a possible feature! For example: Using Seth's head with Skye's muzzle with Jax's eyes with Mercy's horns with Remy's ears, to get a good looking original character. The sprites would likely need a few modifications, but maybe this is a possibility for later?
     
  12. J0SLAN

    J0SLAN New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    http://imgur.com/a/nUgMi
    Sprites look pretty editable to me. The reason he looks like paper is because MSPaint doesn't know what transparency is.
    Haven't bothered to try to edit the actual game and add anything. I'll see about that tomorrow, or the next day, or never. Depends on laziness levels.
     
  13. Lennian

    Lennian Dark Lord of Team Amorous Team Amorous

    Messages:
    2,207
    Likes Received:
    939
    Adjusting a texture like that is different from adding a whole new character, which was really my point :p
     
  14. J0SLAN

    J0SLAN New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    I just added a character. It wasn't that hard; I just went in and edited Coby's date line to branch off to talk with a custom NPC. The only thing I can't do yet is customise certain hard-coded operations: add sex-scenes, add a ninth contact, etc. Everything else works like a charm.
    I can technically make sex scenes, but the game seems to have a table for them that I can't change, so I can't actually play them. If I want to do hard-coded shit I'd either have to decompile shit or edit an NPC that already exists. Unless I'm just not finding something.
     
    MirceaKitsune likes this.
  15. KakeiTheWolf

    KakeiTheWolf Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    23
    Lennian, I believe this is what we like to call "getting owned".
     
  16. Lennian

    Lennian Dark Lord of Team Amorous Team Amorous

    Messages:
    2,207
    Likes Received:
    939
    Adding a NPC using dialogue doesn't physically add a new NPC to the game with his own textures, only by name, it's simply not possible right now.

    And with "getting owned", you almost make it sound like I try to prevent you guys from modding the game. On the contrary, I'm surprised it only got picked up now and not months back given the rather open format.
     
    MirceaKitsune and Sir Wolf like this.
  17. KakeiTheWolf

    KakeiTheWolf Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    23
    First off, I've known this stuff since v0.4, thank you very much. And I hardly call .XNB files an open format... those are a pain to edit. And there's many more unorthodox formats, though not as many as when it was more clearly a Unity project.

    My real point was that much of what you said can't be added is, in fact, rather easy to implement and add in. If this were not the case, then none of the programmers would be able to do it. A hard and fast rule of modding is that whatever a dev can put in, a modder can put in better.
     
  18. J0SLAN

    J0SLAN New Member

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    3
    Could y'all not? This shouldn't be an argument, or anything similar to one.

    @Lennian I'm sorry for making it sound like you're being antagonised; I didn't mean to do that.
    @KakeiTheWolf Calm your shit.
     
    Sir Wolf likes this.
  19. KakeiTheWolf

    KakeiTheWolf Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    23
    Wait, this was an argument?
     
  20. Sir Wolf

    Sir Wolf Active Member

    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    37
    To be fair your tone is very hostile and defensive, and I don't think it was necessary at all to make an entire post just to say "You got owned."
     

Share This Page